Page 1 of 10 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Margaret Maggie Anderson 
May 7, 1985 
Cassette 3, Side 1 
 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  00:03 
This is Kristen Boughton-Morin, it is May 7, 1985, Seattle, Washington. I am interviewing 
Maggie Anderson, this is interview number two, tape number two, side a. This is the final side. 
Okay, you're saying that you, it doesn't really matter to you whether you're a Canadian citizen or 
an American citizen, but you feel more American. Do you, do you see a real cultural difference 
between the two?  
 
Margaret Anderson  00:39 
Yeah, I feel it when I when I go up there, it's been so long since I lived there. I do feel the way a 
lot of Americans do when they are in Canada, you know, it feels like a foreign country, and I'm 
kind of aware of that. And like, when I said feel more American, I thought about that, I, it's a lot 
more familiar to me. But obviously, the fact that I haven't given up my Canadian citizenship, I 
think, it isn't just out of laziness. It is out of the fact that, on some level, I am, I am a Canadian, 
you know, and I sort of want to hang on to that. And I am able to do that and probably pass as an 
American where some people aren't able to do that. I don't have that same drive, I think that a lot 
of people come from other countries to really become an American citizen. I didn't leave 
anything that was unpleasant. I just actually enjoy the best of both worlds on some level, I think.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  01:50 
Are the differences between the two cultures just how you feel about it, or is there anything that 
you can tell me that is different? 
 
Margaret Anderson  01:58 
It's just sort of a slower pace in some ways up there, maybe not in the more American type cities, 
like Toronto or something, but certainly in the West. And I don't know if there's anything else 
really, I appreciate some of the Canadian culture and the poetry and the art. I think that I'm rather 
sad, you know, that, the direction that the government is going in Canada now is to become 
more, go along with the States more. I'm rather, you know, I'm sad to see the government of 
Canada agree to missile testing up in Canada. I wish that they were more firm about not getting 
sucked in in some ways. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:01 
Page 2 of 10 
 
Do you think there's a more conservative trend there, like there has been here in the last five 
years?  
 
Margaret Anderson  03:11 
There may be, there may be. I know that the New Democratic Party, which was a very little 
party, recently got voted out. And, and obviously now, the way people voted for Mulroney. And 
everybody kept saying he was more like Reagan than he was like anybody else.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:33 
Mulroney?  
 
Margaret Anderson  03:34 
He's the new Prime Minister of Canada.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:37 
Okay. Do the territory, what's the same division, division like the states here? 
 
Margaret Anderson  03:47 
Province. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:47 
Province, [laughs], territory. My mother's Canadian and I don't remember. Do the provinces have 
the same sort of activity? Do they operate the same as a state does in America? 
 
Margaret Anderson  04:01 
No, there's a, to me that, one of the basic differences is that in Canada, I used to know this very 
well, but there's a difference between the way that the states were organized. I think that the 
states have more autonomy, and they give some powers to the federal government. Whereas in 
Canada, it started out with the federal government having a lot of power, and giving some 
powers, you know, to the provinces and, and so that, there has been more, provinces have 
become more autonomous on some level, in Canada, and they states have been, [?they stay a 
little more?] level. So that you can get-- And also they have more political parties, you know, 
Canada. They don't just have two political parties. So that you can have, you can have three or 
four different political parties in the, running or governing that province. You know, this 
province can have that political party, and this one can have that one, there could be a third 
different one, and maybe fourth. And then what you get in the government, in Ottawa, in the 
federal government, is you get a balance, often, of, you have a majority party, which, in and of 
itself, could not, you know, often be a majority unless it formed a coalition with some of the 
minority parties. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:40 
What are the names of those majority parties?  
 
Margaret Anderson  05:44 
Oh, the liberals.  
 
Page 3 of 10 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:48 
That's the name of a party? Liberal party? 
 
Margaret Anderson  05:49 
Uh-huh, Liberal party, and the Progressive Conservatives.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:54 
That's like a contradiction of terms.  
 
Margaret Anderson  05:56 
Yes, and the New Democrats and then there's the CCF. I don't even know if that's part, but that's 
CCF, Canadian Commonwealth Federation, which is sort of like a Socialist party. I always used 
to vote CCF when I voted. I think there's even some communist members of parliament that get 
elected individually, they don't have too much power, but you could have a communist, you 
know, identified as a communist. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:57 
And there's not that same fear? 
 
Margaret Anderson  06:32 
No, it was never that same fear. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:36 
Now, that's a huge cultural difference. 
 
Margaret Anderson  06:37 
Yeah, I guess it is, although I think the, the Mounties is going to operate the same way as, so 
that's the difference, probably, in terms of the Royal Canadian, amount of police, being an 
overall police force throughout Canada. Whereas there isn't that in the States, I mean, each state 
has their own-- well, I guess it's more like the FBI at some level.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:59 
But are they more of a police agency, right, than a secret?  
 
Margaret Anderson  07:04 
Yeah, yeah, much more police agency, and could be just as brutal, unfortunately. So those are 
the parties. I'm trying to think of the Social Credit party. Now, I think there's a party in British 
Columbia, and I don't know what the name of it is because I was always a Midwesterner and I 
wasn't aware of what, the parties but I think there's a, British Columbia has a big party.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  07:42 
How do they-- each of the provinces relate with each other? Are they?  
 
Margaret Anderson  07:46 
Well, it depends. 
 
Page 4 of 10 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  07:47 
Depends on who it is, right?  
 
Margaret Anderson  07:48 
Right, the French, Eastern French ones are very angry with some of the English speaking 
western provinces, there's a real gap there. What I was trying to say, or what I'd like to say more 
about in terms of the parties is that because your majority party depends on a coalition with 
minority parties in order to stay in power, that affects the platform. And that affects the kind of 
legislation that gets through, and so that you have more of an option, more of an opportunity, for 
some of the minority platforms, and some of the minority sponsored legislation to come into 
effect, which I think is a, [?seems to have?] more of a democratic feel to it. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  08:45 
Your family, your parents and your grandparents, how, what were their political beliefs? Were 
they New Democrats? Were they basically liberal people? Did they have real strong political 
beliefs, or?  
 
Margaret Anderson  09:00 
Mm-mm, I don't think so. I never, I don't recall anybody ever really waxing loudly about 
anything. So, I don't know, I don't know. We all just sort of went off and voted whatever way we 
wanted to vote, I think. I'm sure we were a real mixture throughout the family, probably all 
canceled each other out completely.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  09:32 
Maggie, what were, do you think, were the happiest times in your life, or what was the single 
happiest time? 
 
Margaret Anderson  09:51 
I think early in my relationship with Rosemary, I think were some of the happiest times. And I 
say early because I think later on in the relationship, you know, we were going in other 
directions. And there were, there was discord at times, but in the first couple years, [about 
background noise] that's a loud noise. First couple of years, were very, very happy ones for me. 
My happiest single event? I don't, I don't recall any wild, wonderful. I just recall different times 
and things that we did. We spent a great month in '78, summer of '78 in Colorado, and we were 
at a training, training with Anne Wilson Schaef, an alternative psychotherapist for women-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  10:52 
Oh. 
 
Margaret Anderson  10:52 
--and Rosemary was there also. You say, "Oh," as if you know the, her name?  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  10:58 
Yeah, I do. I'm familiar her book Women's Reality, I think I read it about [?twice?].  
 
Margaret Anderson  10:58 
Page 5 of 10 
 
Oh, is that right? Yeah, well [?a lady?] in town, here, has my copy that Anne wrote in, never got 
it back.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  11:12 
You should make a phone call. 
 
Margaret Anderson  11:13 
Yeah, I should tell, ask her to do that, yeah. Anne was a very important person, and when you 
asked about relationships, I didn't talk about Anne. Anne is a very important person in my life, 
Anne Schaef, and that was a very important month training in Colorado with her. And then after 
that, I worked as a co-therapist with her several times in nine day intensives in Minnesota. A 
couple of those intensives, Rosemary worked as a massage therapist, and I worked as a co-
therapist with Anne, and we had some good times. And that, in January of '79 when, not January 
of '79 but when, the January when, my 50th birthday, so that would have been January of '81, 
and Rosemary wanted out of the relationship. And I was quite suicidal, I didn't attempt suicide, I 
just felt depressed and suicidal. And I called Anne, and all she said was just come, you know, 
and I spent a month just living with Anne at her home in Colorado, while I was attempting to 
recover and gain some sanity anyway, so I just thought I'd mention how important she was. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  12:33 
Are you still close friends? 
 
Margaret Anderson  12:36 
I don't know that we're close friends. I think that the love is still there and, but we don't have a lot 
of ongoing contact. I saw her last July. I haven't seen her since July. I was going, planning to 
stop by and see her as I drove east, but she's in Europe right now, so I'll have to miss that, but I'll 
see her in Minnesota, because she comes in quite often.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  13:03 
Now, was she important to you? Because, professionally and, or personally or? 
 
Margaret Anderson  13:08 
Both, both. Yeah, sort of a mentor, a very loving person. That's when I first realized that that 
rage inside of me wasn't craziness, met Anne and listened to her. And then that, later that 
summer that we spent, we were in Estes Park, that was wonderful, I loved that.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  13:30 
How far into your relationship was that?  
 
Margaret Anderson  13:33 
Well Rosemary and I started living together in '73 and that was '78, it was five years. We were 
probably, that was sort of the beginning of going in other directions, but up until then, that month 
was pretty good. From that point on, things became different. Rosemary got, began to get 
involved in some intensive therapy for herself and I began to go through [?alcoholism therapy?]. 
Our original contract, obviously, wasn't gonna work anymore. 
 
Page 6 of 10 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  13:51 
Those early years with Rosemary, did you talk a lot about building an alternative relationship 
and you know, maybe comparing this new relationship with your parents or other role models 
that you, either one of you have had? 
 
Margaret Anderson  14:34 
No. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:36 
None of that? 
 
Margaret Anderson  14:40 
No. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:41 
You just started and went, went for it?  
 
Margaret Anderson  14:45 
Mm-hmm, I remember saying, if this last six days, six weeks, six months or six years, you know, 
it's worth it. I mean, I was just really in love. We had some great times. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:57 
What do you think were the most unhappy times in your life? 
 
Margaret Anderson  15:03 
There were some really hard times as a child, some really unhappy times as a child because of 
being lonely, my mother drinking and being gone a lot. I remember being alone a lot, being 
unhappy. And I think when I first, that relationship with Nancy, when I began realizing that I 
couldn't stay in and I needed to get out, and I was so afraid and not knowing what to do. And 
there's some hard times around that, so many hard times, but the greatest psychic pain, probably, 
was, again, dealing with the loss of Rosemary. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  16:06 
What do you think you might have done differently in your life?  
 
Margaret Anderson  16:10 
What might I had done differently? There was a time when I toyed with the idea of going over to 
England and studying at Anna Freud's clinic, [inaudible], and, and then I just sort of let go of 
that, and I didn't really pursue it. And that would have been, might have been an interesting 
career. There was another time when, early in the '60s, '62 or '63, well I guess '63, '64, when 
Rhea and Wynn, Wynn, who is Rhea's husband, offered me the opportunity to stay down and 
manage one of his A&Ws, that would have been an interesting change in career, I might have 
been, that could've been fun. I have thought about what my life would have been like then.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  16:10 
You'd probably be a millionaire.  
Page 7 of 10 
 
 
Margaret Anderson  17:10 
Well, the biggest difference, I think, when my friends Sharon and Bob went to Phoenix and went 
private practice back in '72, and they asked me to join them. And I didn't feel quite ready to do 
that, and Jane didn't want to move to Phoenix, and she didn't like Sharon and Bob, and I let that 
affect me. I think, career wise, my, I'd have been miles from where I am now in terms of 
knowledge and [inaudible]. I mean, they have, they have gone in a direction, you know, that I 
barely understand. And part of this is because the whole field of family therapy has changed so 
much in the last five years that, that it's a totally different thing; and I know nothing about it 
because I haven't been involved in it.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  18:03 
Just in the last five years?  
 
Margaret Anderson  18:04 
The last five years, there has been some total changes. I mean, [inaudible] great changes in 
family therapy and approaches. And when I go there and visit with them and talk a little, hear 
about it, oh, my God, I know nothing about some of the approaches to therapy, so I'm kind of 
looking forward to getting involved in that. So that, that would have been a real, that might have 
been a real important thing if I had done that, but I didn't. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  18:04 
Well now, you're doing, about to do something pretty exciting anyway.  
 
Margaret Anderson  18:46 
Yeah, right, right. I'm going in a different direction. And I really sort of believe that things 
happen, that they're-- well I always used to say things happening, that they're meant to be. But 
Sharon and Bob believe in this, some kind of structured, structural determinism, structured 
determinism, in which that they believe that everything is accidental, everything is totally 
accidental, and we are always in drift, drift, and it's, everything is just an accident in time and 
history and being at the right place at the right time is what makes the difference. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  19:31 
How do you feel about that?  
 
Margaret Anderson  19:32 
Well, I find, I can understand some of it, and it doesn't quite fit with some of my spiritual 
feelings. Now, I'm not talking about organized religion, I'm talking about a spiritual, you know, 
about a higher power, or at least some kind of force. I really fully believe that, I was going to 
say, feel and believe that the last, that I came out here to recover, and the last eight months has 
been, the last, you know, eight, nine months has been of major importance in my recovery. And 
so on some level, I've probably been kind of happier than I've been in a long time. I am now 
happier than I've been in a long time, without a lot of, you know, stress and pull and ambivalence 
and ups and downs. This is a good time. This is a good time for me. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  20:55 
Page 8 of 10 
 
Would you like to stay in Seattle if you had the opportunity? 
 
Margaret Anderson  21:01 
I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, since I didn't make the opportunity, and I feel, at some level, 
that probably that was part of, that I could have gone, gone out there and done more in terms of 
trying to find a job in the mental health area. Although, I still think it's a very difficult field to 
break into, and it depends upon who you know as to whether you get the jobs or not. But I maybe 
could have done more networking, I could have put more effort and the fact that I didn't, well 
partly, I didn't have the energy because I was busy recovering. I think, though, that I really am a 
Midwesterner at heart. As beautiful as Seattle is, and I had tears in my eyes when that plane 
landed yesterday, you know, because I could just see, I mean, it was so beautiful, and it was so 
green, and I could see all these familiar landmarks from the plane as we're coming in. And I am 
sorry, you know, to leave people and to leave the mountains and Seattle. I really have some 
people here that I love a great deal. They seem to have people all over the country that I love a 
great deal, and unfortunately, they all live in different parts of the country.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:20 
Do you think, this is a whole new subject here--  
 
Margaret Anderson  22:22 
Yeah? 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:22 
Do you think that now, now that you've gone through personal therapy and being a therapist, that 
whole training, if your mother were still alive, would you confront her? Would you talk to her 
about her alcoholism and that, and its effect on your life? Would you talk to her about being a 
lesbian? 
 
Margaret Anderson  22:44 
Oh, I think now, yes, I would, yeah. Once my mother said that she thought she was an alcoholic, 
and the next day denied saying it. Yes, I would, now, if she were alive now, I would talk with her 
about those things.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  23:11 
Are you bothered that you never got to, or? 
 
Margaret Anderson  23:17 
No. I mean not, given where I was at the time she died, I had finished all, I felt that I didn't have, 
I didn't have any unfinished business with her at the time she died. I dealt with, with issues that I 
was able to deal with at that time. And my relationship, although I hadn't come right out and 
said, this is, I mean, I know that on some level, she was aware of that and gave some passive 
approval. Her last Christmas present, she had me buy the Christmas presents because she was in 
the nursing home, and for two friends of hers, a couple, she had me by twin heated, you know, 
electric mattress pads. Are you familiar with in [?electric?] mattress pads? Well, I had introduced 
my mother to them, you know, on northern [?climbs?], they're wonderful. And she bought my 
brother and sister in law one for their double bed. And then she said, "Now I want you to buy a 
Page 9 of 10 
 
queen size one for you and Rosemary." So, I felt that that was, you know, some kind of a passive 
acknowledgement of the nature of our relationship.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  24:30 
Do you-- Were there any particular close times with her as an adult? 
 
Margaret Anderson  24:38 
With my mother?  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  24:38 
Yeah. 
 
Margaret Anderson  24:39 
The night she died, the closest we ever were, probably the most intimacy I ever felt with her. 
And she was, she was sort of coherent, but she had trouble speaking. And she asked me if she 
were dying, and I said, "Yes," the doctor had told me that she was. And she just like, she sort of 
nodded as if she knew that. And then I asked her if she was afraid, she said, "No," that she was 
wanting to. And I rubbed her back for her, I think that was, I mean, I, we never really had 
physical contact much at all, and I know that was, she, that was special to her. And then I, I told 
her that I loved her. And I think, I don't ever remember her telling me that she loved me, but she 
did that night. I, she died in April, and I arranged to have a-- I know her brother and sister 
wanted to have a, she died Good Friday, and her brother and sister wanted to have funeral 
service Easter Sunday at my aunt's church, which my mother had never gone to. And I said, 
"No." I said, "We'll have a memorial service for her on her birthday or as close to her birthday as 
possible, at the church that she had been married in twice and had once, and had been a member 
of as a child." My uncle never spoke to me again after that, but it didn't matter. So, we had a 
memorial service in June, it's close to her birthday. And I gave, I don't know what you'd call it, 
the minister talked and then I, he wanted-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  26:34 
Eulogy? 
 
Margaret Anderson  26:34 
Yeah, something like that, to do that. And it was a really, it was a really honest one. I talked 
about her, you know, as she was, her anger that part of her, Chris, it was a real honest eulogy. 
Then we went and had a party with the bar and all her favorite foods, and everybody sat around 
saying, "Chris would love this, Chris would love this."  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  26:38 
That's [?nice?]. 
 
Margaret Anderson  27:06 
Yeah. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  27:09 
Page 10 of 10 
 
If you had a daughter, what kinds of things would you teach her about, about growing up that 
were maybe different or the same that your mom taught you? 
 
Margaret Anderson  27:23 
Yeah, well, what my mother taught me all was, none of it was really spoken, I don't think. Some 
of it was just by observation omission, but my mother was, on some level, an inde-- very 
independent person, and she paved her own way, and she knew the importance of some kind of 
training and, and the importance of being able to do that, and she was generous, she was a 
generous person. What would I teach a daughter? I guess I'd teach her that you didn't have to, 
that you could, to be independent and you never have to get married if you didn't want to, you 
didn't have to be in a dependent relationship, in fact, it was not a good thing to. And just to value 
herself and other people, and to be honest, caring, I don't know what else. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  28:38 
Sounds wonderful. Well, I think I'm done, do you have anything else you want to add?  
 
Margaret Anderson  28:44 
I don't think so. I, I really am grateful that I had the opportunity to be with my mother at the time 
of her death, to be with her, you know, and I knew she was dying, and so I, you know, I wanted 
to be there. I think that's important. Both for, and, both the person that's dying and for family 
members. Working in the nursing home, you know, I felt really, makes me sad, you know, 
people that die alone, and yet, in the long run, you know, we all, we all go alone. So, it's 
probably more important for the family members. But if there was, it was important, I was glad 
that I was there. I can't, I can't think of anything. I'm sure I will tomorrow, whereas I'm driving 
across the country, I'll probably think of all the wonderful things I could have said, or should 
have said. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  30:20 
Okay, thank you.  
 
Margaret Anderson  30:21 
Thank you. 
 